Karen Mangia
Today on Success from Anywhere we’ll meet a tremendous trio of “Slackers” with the remarkable ability to accurately predict the future. Brian Elliot, Sheila Subramanian and Helen Kupp, literally wrote the book, How The Future Works, a Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller, that's the go-to-guide based on their future forum, research and leadership roles at Slack.
Welcome to the show, Brian, Sheila and Helen.
Sheela, Brian and Helen
Good to be here. Thanks for having us.
Karen Mangia
Because we're talking about the future of work. I like to ask every guest one opening question, which is, what was your first job? And how did that job inform or inspire your career trajectory?
Helen Kupp
That is a great question, what was my first job, you can count being a teacher tutor to all of the younger siblings in my family as a first job. Because it feels like that's been my forever job. But being a teacher generally is a theme that runs across a lot of my work, a lot of my roles, but also in writing this book, where I think there's just an opportunity to pull together learnings that I'm having personally as I go through this journey of flexible work, along with our team and the executives that we work with. I think it's been a really fun journey, just building this blueprint around the future of work from scratch. And using the book and our work at Future Forum as a way to teach and help guide that vision for the future.
Brian Elliot
Mine was age 14, as an hourly employee, it was my first regular job at a place called Dairy Snack in Birmingham, Alabama. And I was pulling soft serve ice cream cones in the front. A Dairy Snack, by the way, is probably a Dairy Queen that lost its franchise license for employing 14 year olds, but we'll set that aside. But what I also did that summer was the short order cook would tend to not show up some days. And so I ended up learning to roll up my sleeves, get back there and do the fried egg sandwiches and the other stuff that happened in the morning on the early part of the day shift. That you know roll up your sleeves up, get it done, shaped me a lot in terms of how I work both for the good and the bad as my partners in crime here on the book can testify. My early work ethic got instilled but also maybe some issues around balance and boundaries.
Karen Mangia
They probably won't let you cook for them, given your career starts there.
Brian Elliott
I actually have. I'm not bad. I'm not as bad as I used to be. Let's put it that way.
Helen Kupp
He's pretty good. Good pizzas.
Brian Elliott
We can do more on that next time.
Karen Mangia
What about you, Sheila, what was your first job? And how did that job inspire your career trajectory?
Sheela Subramanian
My first job was working on a congressional campaign for a woman, Ellen Tauscher in the East Bay Area. I was 16 at the time, so I wasn't even legally able to vote. And I had the glamorous job of stuffing envelopes and calling constituents, encouraging them to vote. And it was actually a really educational experience in the sense that when you think about stuffing envelopes, you have to think about how you're folding, as well as how you're actually stuffing the paper in the envelope to make it an easy process for someone to open it up and take the paper out. So it taught me a lot about craftsmanship and courtesy, even the smallest details when it comes to designing experiences for people. Also getting hung up on and calling constituents just taught me a lot about listening and getting more comfortable. I'm still working on this with the awkward silence of that awkward space. And that's helped me a lot in terms of leading and managing people, learning to listen to people, hear them out and to resist the urge to actually provide my own opinion. It was something that I learned at a very early age.
Karen Mangia
Leadership is listening. We talk about that a lot. And in fact, I think listening is what inspired the Future Forum, which might be a new concept for some of our listeners. So let's start by setting the stage with what is the Future Forum and what inspired you to create it.
Brian Elliott
Future Forum itself is a think tank backed by Slack, along with our partners at Boston Consulting Group, Miller, Knoll, and management leadership Leadership for Tomorrow. MLT is a nonprofit focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion. These organizations have come together to help us think about two things. One is research. So we do a quarterly Pulse survey of over 10,000 workers around the globe, to get habits and practices and what's working and what's not for people. And we do a lot of executive conversations, forums for small groups of executives to come together in confidential settings, and talk about the challenges they're facing both themselves as leaders, but also with their organizations. And the reason why we do all this is the last two years have really created this opening of people's minds to new ways of working that we think could make work better for people as well as organizations. But it requires a lot of work. It requires a lot of leaning into sort of challenging conversations. And so Future Forum sits at the center of that. Our job is to enable leaders to build more flexible, inclusive, and connected ways of working,
Karen Mangia
What are some of the topics that are trending now? What are you researching? And are people who are listening able to access your outcomes and your findings?
Sheela Subramanian
We've researched a range of topics. And we've worked with executives on how to actually implement a hybrid model successfully, or what does flexibility look like when it's flexibility in when you work rather than just where you work? We've also had conversations around how flexibility and training work for frontline workers. So how do you extend this conversation beyond desk workers and have conversations around what inclusion and diversity look like in this new way of work. The topics have ranged, depending on some of the challenges that executives face. So on our website, futureforum.com, we publish insights and blog posts. But we also publish our research that we conduct quarterly in the form of a report as well as interactive data. To encourage those listening to check out futureforum.com. To learn more, because we've written a lot about the executive employee disconnect, proximity bias, as well as what is what the next few years look like for leaders.
Helen Kupp
I'll also add that in writing the book, we got started with tools and templates that teams and leaders can use to implement future flexible work in their organizations. And that's continued on the website as well. So, on top of insights and research that you can find at futureforum.com, you can actually see some of those toolkits and templates that we have available. So that you can use it as well.
Karen Mangia
Listeners might be surprised to discover that in an organization like Slack, a digital headquarters, a tool focused on making asynchronous connection easier, that pre-pandemic, you were extremely office based. And you've been on a journey of discovery of your own. What has that been like?
Brian Elliott
It was hugely office centric, less than 3% of our workforce was remote. I would be sitting in to lead one of our product teams, pre-pandemic, or developer platform. I would sit with our leadership team. We had this debate once every few months about why it's so challenging to hire people from New York, from San Francisco. Shouldn't we open up the aperture more in order to hire more people, especially more diverse candidates from more locations And it was always we would love to do that. But it's hard. We are so used to office based ways of working; we had so many assumptions about productivity, about innovation, about creativity, about belonging, that it took the pandemic to open up our eyes. We got about three months into that and that conversation changed 180 degrees. In fact, Cal Henderson was the first person to say, I'm changing my policies. Because Cal, who was very concerned pre pandemic, was seeing that productivity was as high as it ever was. There were huge challenges that individual people were facing that we had to help them navigate. But it wasn't an issue of people that couldn't be productive.
And then we walked through a second set of challenges around innovation and creativity, and how to allow people to communicate and share ideas with one another even though they were virtual and separated. That actually worked out really well. Once those two were sort of fundamental, and many preconceived notions had been challenged, Cal’s mind changed entirely. And it's not just because Cal is a good person but because Cal realized that his hiring challenge all of a sudden became much easier. People in North Carolina in Idaho in Texas, that he wouldn't have hired otherwise, were open to hire for him. It changed not only our ability to hire people, but the diversity of the population we were able to hire. And clearly a lot of organizations have been wrestling with this, but it's not been unique. It's definitely not been one that Slack has been immune to by any stretch of the imagination.
Sheela Subramanian
I think one thing that we did well at Slack is we set principles and our guardrails early on. We talked a lot about this in the book in terms of it's not about policies, it's about what are the purposes behind your flexible work? And also what are the behavioral guardrails that you want to see, and you want to model from the top. And when one of the principles was to embrace the experimental mindset, realizing that this was not going to be something that we were going to get perfect. On September 1, 2020, it was something that we would continue to have to iterate on. And what the conversations that we're having today are going to be fundamentally different from what they are six months from now and realizing that we have to constantly be checking in on what's working, what's not, and get feedback from our employees, regardless of where they're located.
Helen Kupp
We've been trying some pretty specific programs. So something that comes up often when we talk about schedule flexibility, and making that possible is this over reliance that we all have on meetings as a way to get work done. And that is just a habit that we've all built over time in the workplace. But it's a habit that's hard to break. And so some of the things that we've been experimenting with at SLAC to help teams get out of that meeting mindset are things like focus Fridays, where we take the Friday and make sure there are no meetings scheduled then so that people have focused time to do work and get in flow. And then more importantly, we also had our async weeks or what we call maker weeks, where for a whole week the whole company cancels all recurring meetings, making more of that space for a deeper flow and thinking time. And the nice thing about that is that it allows us to audit and take a step back and say, “Do we actually need that meeting? Can we do things differently?” That helps shift that mindset of meetings as the only mechanism for work. And how can we do this better if we do it asynchronously or in a shorter amount of shorter discussion moments? So those are things that I think as we've gotten further in our journey, we've experimented more.
Karen Mangia
Does it have to be a meeting? It is one of my favorite choice of challenge questions. And what I like about your focus Fridays, and the asynchronous week practice is that it introduces a pattern interrupt. To your point, a meeting is a habit like anything else. And sometimes you need a pattern interrupt to consider whether or not that habit still serves you. And what strikes me about the themes that you're bringing up here about flexible work is sometimes we can all use a phrase like that and have different definitions of what that means. How would you define or baseline flexible work at this point in time?
Sheela Subramanian
So much of the conversation today is about how many days in the office? Are you required to go back? Are you asking your teams to go back? Much of the conversation is about where people work. But what we see from the data is that people want flexibility also in when they work. They want to break out of the confines of the nine to five. And so I believe that the next part of the evolution of what flexible work will look like is actually questioning and asking why? Why are we having that meeting? Why does it need to happen between these hours? Or why do we need to be expected to be online during these hours? I think there's broader conversations about that. But ultimately, flexibility is about choice. People want to be treated like adults. You're hiring adults. They want to be treated that way. And flexibility is about choice and trust. And I think that there's an opportunity for us to start shifting the conversation around leadership from one about power to one about trust, because that's what people are expecting right now and leaders need to lead with that moving forward.
Karen Mangia
Take us into some of the data you're referencing because you have data that backs this up. In fact, as you just mentioned, we default to applying our mindsets, our best thoughts, and all of our attention around this idea of where people work. You said that the data shows that people also want flexibility when they work. Can you share some of the statistics? Everyone listening is probably trying to build a business case of some kind, even for a pilot to test out some of what you're referencing.
Helen Kupp
When we look at the data, in our latest quarterly Pulse report, we saw that 80% of workers want flexibility in their location. But almost everyone, 94%, want flexibility in their schedule. And the reality is, when we look at employees who are getting more flexibility, they're seeing higher scores across the board for different work factors like 33% higher productivity, and two times better work life balance scores. And it's not hard to see why. And when you have more control of your day you're not in back to back meetings; you have some more agency and choice and more ability to get into flow and have focus time. You feel better. You are able to balance the things that you need to do at home. For some of us who have very small children, it's a daycare drop off or a daycare pick up in the middle of the day, or others who just want to jump on the peloton and get a workout in the middle of the day. You don't need to have permission and don't want to get permission to just do those things that need to happen during your day. The reality is, we can trust our people to get their work done, to drive towards outcomes without having to manage every single hour, every single minute of the nine to five.
Brian Elliott
The part of the narrative that gets woven out is not just the fact that flexibility is all about location, when actually time is more important. It also gets woven around there's choice or there's control. And the only two polls are I've got a choice, which is completely individualistic and everybody on their own or control top down mandates. When the truth is most people want something in the middle. The majority of that 80% that wants location flexibility, almost everyone in that 94% that want schedule flexibility wants some overlap with their team. People want to come together, but they want it to be for a purpose. They want it to be for camaraderie, for relationship building, as much as they want it for collaboration. On schedules, they want time when they know they can contact each other and they can be in sync on a daily basis. But they don't want it to be nine to five. So what we talked about a lot in the book is flexibility within a framework. Salesforce does this as well, with Flex team agreements, we do it at Slack with team level agreements, making sure that every team has its own level of agreement about what those conditions look like about why we come together as well as when we come together. For our team, for example, we have core collaboration hours 9am until 2pm West Coast time, or when we jam in all of our one on ones, our team meetings, and our cross functional meetings, in order to make sure that we've got freedom and flexibility for people to do their individual work outside of that and so that our team which is spread across North America doesn't end up with people who are on the East Coast dialing in repeatedly at six o'clock on the East Coast for three o'clock in the afternoon California meeting. That type of constraint is sometimes hard for teams to initially put in place as that means some change in terms of how you think about your calendar. But it unlocks a lot of wellbeing. It unlocks a lot of stress reduction, and it unlocks a lot of productivity from an employer perspective. The payback was really great on on those kinds of concepts,
Karen Mangia
Flexibility within a framework also suggests this isn't one size fits all, even inside of your organization, even if it only has 100 people and 10 teams. Flexibility within a framework also suggests this isn't free for all. It isn't all or nothing. We're not all 100% independent, autonomous or all 100% functioning, under a mandate. What shows up for me is you're challenging some very powerful myths or beliefs that organizations have held onto about work like time is money. This productivity mentality . . . how do we work through that? I mean, that's a powerful belief system.
Sheela Subramanian
It rules the way that corporate culture operated for a long time. It's a time as money concept: the more time you spend on work, the more money that you'll make. We've all sat in performance conversations or promotion reviews where someone gets lauded for being the first to arrive and the last to leave. My first performance review in my career, I was complimented for responding to emails on my Blackberry at midnight, and that was a good thing. And I think that for so long, this person deserves to get promoted because they have an amazing work ethic. They work all the time and their job defines their life, whereas this person creates a lot of value. And these are the outcomes that they have created for our team, for our organization that warrants that promotion. This is going to be the most challenging shift for many leaders to embrace as we think about flexible work: it's measuring the outcomes rather than the activity, defining the impact, showing people what good looks like and giving them the autonomy to get there. A lot of these pieces are not necessarily natural for many leaders. But it's critical that we embrace them and start implementing these conversations, and feedback in order to develop a more equitable and inclusive work environment. Because what we've seen for so long is that this time is money, hustle till you make it culture has created a monoculture across the corporate ranks globally.
Helen Kupp
It comes back down to trust which was brought up at the beginning of this discussion. It comes back down to trust, and focusing on outcomes helps you be really clear on what the expectations are. It moves you away from some of the things that we're hearing in the media around monitoring software and finding ways to check if people are online and the behaviors that result from that is more performative than actually driving towards more productivity and outcomes, what you actually want.
Brian Kupp
One of my favorite quotes from a Chief Human Resource resource officer to their CEO who kept asking “ how do we know they're really working?” The question back was “how did you know that they’re working in the office?” Managing by attendance: Joe comes in at 8am. Joe leaves at 8pm. That doesn't mean that Joe produces great outcomes. Rewarding Joe because He crushed his Q2, but he also crushed his Q1 is different from attendance based type thinking. And if there's one thing that can help us all, both business and individuals across a wide spectrum of backgrounds, it's by focusing on outcomes because that's what we want out of the business. It's a more level playing field in terms of how we reward people with opportunity, with promotions.
One of the things that comes up in our research time and again, every single quarter, is that flexibility has disproportionate benefits for historically underrepresented groups. 60% of working moms in our latest version of the survey want to work from the office two days a week or less. That's up every quarter for the past year. Basically 50% of working dads want it to, so it's not that working dads don't want it. It's just the needs are clearly disproportionately falling on women with children than men with children, especially in the US. In the UK, the same thing is true.
When we look across race and ethnicity, the sense of belonging among black, Hispanic, Latinx and Asian American office workers, actually has risen over the course of the pandemic. Initially, by the way for white office workers, it fell while it rose for those other groups. Not having had that experience myself, I was wondering where this is coming from.
We got a group of academic experts together. Brian Lowry from Stanford was the first person to express it personally that even as a black professor on Stanford's campus, he felt the cost of code switching, that five days a week nine to five on campus was taxing for him. The ability to step in and step out of that situation allowed him to recharge his batteries. And so the last two years, you can see it in our data, that gets reported on a lot. There are real benefits to diversity, equity, and inclusion when it comes to thinking about flexible work models. But the converse is also true if we go back to what she was describing, which is recording people on presenteeism on attendance. That kind of proximity bias can really be destructive to diversity, equity, and inclusion goals
Sheela Subramanian
And that's why it takes such an issue with phrases like quiet quitting or getting back to work people. We have been working for the last two years, but with quiet quitting, so much of it is that people are re- evaluating the role of work in their lives. You know, prior to the pandemic it was how's my life gonna fit into my work, and now it's how is my work going to fit into my life? By establishing those boundaries, and also not subscribing to the old hustle culture, people are also voting with their feet. And I think it's really critical for people to recognize that as this movement is happening people are defining how they want to approach their work. They're not necessarily going to sacrifice their health, their relationships, their friends, their family, in order to achieve these notions of success.
Karen Mangia
The pandemic presented a paradox based on what you're describing. We have data that tells us exactly how to diversify our organizations. We have data that tells us exactly how to navigate the great resignation. We have all the data that tells us what employees want, or what constitutes a great experience and what they expect now. Yet we seem to be struggling to take action. That makes me think that there's a new definition of what it means to be an effective leader in this flexible framework environment. How would you describe the attributes that we need in leaders now to navigate and to take all of this data we have and put it into action to get to the outcomes you've been talking about?
Helen Kupp
The role of the manager has shifted so dramatically over the last decade, and even more so in the pandemic. It's less about monitoring, less about task tracking, and, checking to see if you're clocking in at nine and clocking out at five, and more about being that empathetic coach helping to unlock the potential in your people by understanding whether they are extroverts, introverts, parent or nonparent. Through understanding some of the context in the background that they bring, it is possible to create a more inclusive environment so that people contribute their very best and their best ideas.
I think that shift in the role of a manager is something that is very near and dear to all three of us. Something that I have always appreciated at Slack is that we have this framework that I love around what is the role of the manager. What are the core responsibilities? And it comes down to three things. One is to create clarity. And that involved the expectations around outcomes. Two is to build trust, because again, it comes down to trust and trust in your people. And three is unlocking potential and really understanding the context that people are bringing to work and their needs and their preferences and determining how to bring that together in a team dynamic? These three core responsibilities of managers are very different from monitoring, task tracking, and input.
Sheela Subramanian
I totally agree with that. And so much of this is about empathy. It's about transparency. From my own experience, when I first became a manager, I thought that I needed to know all the answers. That was my job. If someone had questions or pushback, I would figure it out and solve the problem and know all the answers. But now management is about getting more comfortable with transparency in the form of, I don't know, or I need your help, or we're figuring it out. And that's what we're seeing as a core expectation. And transparency is not just about sharing information. It's also about listening and getting information from your employees. We talked about transparency. And what we've seen from our research is that those who don't feel like they're their leaders are being transparent with them around the future of work policies are three times more likely to look for a new job in the next year. And so this is a big part of the shift in terms of a leader from going from having all the answers, from saying do as I say, to now being more transparent, getting feedback and iterating along the way. And what we've seen is that shift has been very difficult for many. Understandably, because that's not necessarily how they've risen their ranks through their career.
Brian Elliott
I've been leading and managing teams for 30 years, I've been a CEO of small companies, an executive at a number of others. As a successful leader, your attitude often gets baked in, believing that what worked for me is going to work for other people. It turns out that's not right. What worked for you may have worked for you because of the time and place that you're in and who you are. And so understanding that people bring different perspectives to it, but also different challenges and the advantages that some of us have as a white male that we bring into this that are that are different. We were to have all the answers. And I had this phrase beaten into me early on in my career. I was to be seldom wrong, never in doubt. Part of my job was literally to be the smartest person in the room.. It took me a decade plus to unlearn that as a manager.
Part of the reason why I love this work is that we're learning that there are better ways to lead and manage that are more human, that work for more people, and lead to has better outcomes for organizations. But we shouldn't discount the fact that change is hard, especially if you are a highly successful senior leader, because the environment around you has changed quietly, but continuously for a couple of decades. And now you're faced with a world that you don't quite recognize, where the tools you're bringing to it need to change. And what we're asking you to do really is two things: still have that inspiration, that motivation, that vision setting skill that you've got that you're great at, but invite everybody to help you figure out the path by saying, “I know where we need to get to, but I don't know how we're going to get there. And I need you to help me get there.” Leaders who are doing that are really driving the kind of engagement of people as people in their organizations, not just the rallying cry, but “Oh, you did hire me because I'm an adult for my brain, not just to go and do the work.” And if you can accomplish that you unlock a lot in terms of your team.
Karen Mangia
We all feel greater ownership of what we helped to create. We were talking about creating transparency. When you're a part of coming up with the ideas, participating in the pilots, it's a brilliant strategy to help close that trust gap between employers and employees and have that transparency. And in your book, you say the most successful leaders will go much further than offering occasional remote work days, they will redesign every aspect of how work gets done, from defining how they measure organizational success, to training their managers make it happen. You have seven steps that you encourage organizations to take to move from these places of blending to places of belonging and from mandates to meaning. What are the seven steps? How could listeners get started?
Brian Elliott
You can't start off with policies. Policies land really poorly with people. It's treating them as adults, but starts with principles and guardrails. What's the purpose behind your organization? What is the purpose that you're trying to drive? What are your flexible work principles? For us, it is flexibility. We believe people can do their best work when they have the flexibility to work where and when they're at their best. For inclusion, we need to create a level playing field for people from an opportunity standpoint to advance, to grow, to learn, and connect. We do believe it's important to bring people together to build connections and relationships, but you also build connections through digital and virtual experiences that you build together. Starting up there is really important. And then the next question that always comes up is that's great, but how do I figure out the rules of the road? How do I think about how different parts of your organization and teams find the right balance point in terms of not only where and when they work, but how they work together? And how questions within those tables of agreements are actually the most important ones? How do you make decisions? How you work together becomes more important. So those are the first couple of steps.
Sheela Subramanian
Yes, I think that, as you develop these team level agreements that have those principles and those guardrails it's also critical to remember that do not roll it out, and everything is good to go. Taking the mindset of experimentation, as I mentioned earlier, is super important. And we write a lot about how to actually experiment, how to get feedback from people on your team, and how you measure success. So that's one piece.
I had a conversation earlier today with a few real estate professionals who are worried about what the future role of the offices is going to be. Going digital does not mean that the office is dead. Instead, it takes on a new meaning. And what we see from our research is that those who want to come back into the office periodically want to do so to foster camaraderie and cultivate connection. So, there's an opportunity to redesign what the office looks like in order to help foster that trust, culture that connection between people. It's also about investing in digital tools that will help people connect over the course of a given day between the times that they see each other in person.
My favorite step is the importance of rescaling managers and shifting them from gatekeepers to empathetic coaches. And we talk a lot in that chapter about the need for coaching and structured feedback, as well as celebrating those who are doing their jobs effectively to set the model for the broader organization. And I think that all of these steps don't necessarily have to be taken in chronological order. It's based on where a company is and how they can figure out where they need to start in order to get to their flexible work.
Helen Kupp
The reality is that this is a loop. You start with principles and guardrails, you go work through some team love agreements, experiments, build some foundations, but it's circular: you come back to consider, what is the context that we're operating in now? How are we doing? What are we learning? How does that continue to trickle down? And how do we evolve this blueprint for the future of work for the organization over time, as people are shifting into more hybrid arrangements for example. This is an opportunity to redesign everything from the beginning. We have a blank slate. But also, it shouldn't feel so daunting. There are small easy things that managers and leaders can do to take that first step forward, to rethink meetings, to sit down and write a team level agreement, which can start with just documenting what we have been doing and what has been working. Let's start there. Because the reality is we've been doing a lot of this over the last two and a half years. And there are lessons learned. And we have to recognize that.
Karen Mangia
Excellence and effectiveness have no finish line to cross. That's how I think about what you were saying. And now imagine that we are all gathered together around a water cooler because people say they miss this about the office spontaneous conversation, which means they need to learn about Slack donut where you can just randomly get introduced to people in your own organization. This is our lightning round for listeners to get to know you. Helen, what time of day do you do your best work?
Helen Kupp
Very, very early in the morning, like 6am in the morning before the kids get up.
Karen Mangia
Before the kids get up and before the core collaboration hours that Brian talked about. So Brian, for you, if you could do any job in the world, what would you be doing?
Brian Elliott
Stage Manager musical theater stage.
Karen Mangia
Man, that is awesome. I cannot wait to see your show on Broadway.
Brian Elliott
It's super, super specific and a little bit obscure. It fits me. It's just a fantastic job that I had once upon a time in college and loved it.
Karen Mangia
What is the part of your daily routine that you most look forward to each day?
Sheela Subramanian
I would say that the hardest part of my daily routine, but it's also the most fun is that I take my kids to school every morning on our electric bike. So wake them up, get them breakfast, and then we jump on a bright orange bike and ride to school. I get to hang out with fellow parents and get to hang out with them before they start their days in the classroom. And there are some days where it goes really well. Like this morning. There are other days where we are speeding to school at pretty unsafe speeds. But it's still a lot of fun, and it's time that I treasure with them every single day.
Karen Mangia
Thank you. There's no background music in my head that's playing like a bicycle. I want to ride my bicycle. So thank you, Queen. Imagine for a minute that there were 25 hours in a day instead of twenty-four. How will you spend your extra hour?
Helen Kupp
I would use that extra hour taking a walk through the park with my dog listening to something, but that's probably about an extra hour I would do that every day.
Brian Elliott
I will confess my sleep habits kind of stink. So I'm gonna get a little extra sleep.
Karen Mangia
Arianna Huffington would be proud of you.
Sheela Subramanian
I read this book called Time Management for Mortals a few months ago. It talks a lot about activities that you do for yourself. You go for a walk not to get more steps, or to go to the grocery store, but just to go for a walk. And so I've been trying to find more activities that I'm doing just for myself and so I would use that extra day to just read and and probably read like novels rather than read business books.
Karen Mangia
As we close, how can listeners stay connected with you, find your book and the great research you continue to launch.
Sheela Subramanian
The book is called How the Future Works. For all of our research and more information about the book, follow future forum.com. Follow us on Twitter at Future Forum or on LinkedIn. And you can follow us all individually as well on those two platforms.
Karen Mangia
Choose to challenge the myth of where work happens, when work happens, and how the future works. Thank you to Brian, Sheila and Helen, for showing us how to do the best work of our lives today on Success from Anywhere because success is not a destination. Success is not a location. Success is available to anyone, anywhere at any time. Thanks so much for listening. Make it a great day.