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"A Matter of Trust" w/Karen Mangia and Guest: David Horsager of Trust Edge Leadership Institute






KM:

Today on success from anywhere, we'll meet a former farmhand turned forthright futurist, who's experience growing kidney beans cultivated the curiosity to discover what's rooted in every successful office, organization, colleague and community, amounting to a hill of beans. It turns out, it starts and ends with planting and nurturing one single seed. According to my next guest, please welcome to the show David Horsager CEO of trust edge Leadership Institute. Welcome to the show, David.

DH:

It is great to be here.


KM: Great to see you and great to be with you. Because we are talking about the world of work. I like to ask each guest what was your first paying job and how did that job inform or inspire your career trajectory, baling hay?



DH:

So, in hay baling, you're standing on a wagon, there's a tractor that's pulling a baler that's pulling a hay wagon, you're on that hay wagon, well, it's bumping across the field, you're taking these 50 to 70 pound bales and stacking them just right, hoping you don't tip the whole rack of or hay wagon, as people would say. So. I think that did two things. One, it taught me how to work and be happy to work and willing to work and actually love that part of work, those kinds of jobs while growing up on the farm. I think it also taught me I don't want to do it anymore.


KM:

What comes to mind? Do you have two children? Do you take them on hay rides? Or does that cause an allergic reaction?


DH:

Well, I have four kids. So we have it funny enough. As much as it is we have a hobby farm. Now we have a couple of horses and 20 chickens and have fresh eggs every day and a pretty cool spot and our own John Deere tractor. so teaching them how to work as well. But, as a hobby farm, it's a losing proposition as far as money but at least hopefully, we're making good kids in the world, so we're having a great time learning, weeding, we have a big garden, fresh produce and some other things. So yep, we're all together on it.


KM:

Work together, play together, that reminds me of that childhood book, I think it's called the Little Red Hen, kind of the lesson being if you don't work, you don't eat right? Isn't she cultivating wheat and then she has to cut it down and she makes the bread and nobody wants to participate until the bread comes out of the oven. They're sensing and smelling the bread and they want the warm butter.


DH:

Exactly. Yep. So hopefully we learn to work and appreciate it. Fruits of labor, there's talking about work. There's a lot of fruits of labor. So, as we'll talk about, I think in this workforce, there's a lot about how we can change. But I think something that's true, is people that are working toward something, and really working hard, actually are often better off mentally, psychologically, physically and a host of other things. So there's a lot of good work.


KM:

The pandemic pause did introduce this phenomenon simultaneously of people examining their relationship with work, and how it shows up in their lives. when I read these headlines, the great resignation or reshuffle or whatever you want to call it, and read these strong reactions to going back to the office or not, it makes me think that it all comes down to your one word focus that you talked about and then made into a career and delivering beyond baling hay.


DH:

Well, that word is of course, trust. We research on trust, we inspire and speak 100 times around the world on trust. We certify people on driving trust into their organizations deeper. We measure trust in organizations, we have six different assessment tools from an enterprise trust index to an individual assessment, on trust. But we think if you're not measuring trust, if you're not teaching trust, if you're not giving a common language for building trust, then you're not really doing the right thing. I think trust affects everything more than anything else. I believe the lack of trust, the biggest cost in an organization, it's never a leadership issue. The reason you follow a leader not as trust, not as a salesperson, the reason people buy or not as something to do with trust that way to amplify marketing messages increase trust in the message, the way to increase learning in the classroom has increased trust in the teacher the psychological safety or trust of the room. So we have to deal with this trust issue. When we do, that's why I wrote the newest book because people were not dealing with the root issue, that is, when we deal with trust, we deal with what we mean, that affects attrition, retention, productivity, when we just say, what's leadership or its engagement? What do we know, you don't get engaged with engagement, you have to increase trust? What do we know, Net Promoter Score, you don't get referrals with referrals, you have to increase trust, then you get more referrals. So when people deal with this, they start to see what they actually hoped for.


KM:

You use that phrase in common language. Sometimes we might have the same intention. We use a single powerful word like trust in a very different context. If you were to give all of our listeners a common language or definition of trust, what would it be? Well, there's a common language on the defining definition we have is trust, then there's a common language on the pillar framework or how we build it. So on that definition of trust, you're absolutely right, by the way, because I will actually even in a keynote brainstorm with you. What are words that stand for trust?


DH:

Oh, safety? Yep, that's a good word for dressing. Dependability, reliability, consistency, absolute consistency, whatever, you're consistent or if you're late all the time, I will trust you to be late, consistently. There's people that say things that I think there's a lot today about trust, and a lot of people with and mostly without research. So there's someone today that says trust, that's just transparency, and that transparency can build trust. It's not true, because some of your kids are so transparent on social media. I don't trust them for a second, because it's not just transparency, it could be confidentiality. So both can build trust. So the way we defined it at the Institute, and even back to my grad work a long time ago, is trust is a confident belief in a person, product or an organization, when I can confidently believe in you. Of course, we have even more to the definition of what we mean by gaining the trust edge or being a trusted leader is, a competent belief to do what's right to deliver on what's promised and a host of other things. But really, it's a competent belief, an anticipation that you will do this, that's a faith in us a competent belief.


KM:

Often organizations make headlines now for outrageous spyware examples, right? I recently read about an organization installing cameras in the homes of their customer service workers, to watch them and make sure they were working. When I work with organizations about returning to office or not, or how much hybrid work strikes me, we're trying to solve a trust issue. I mean, what advice would you give to leaders I mean, employers and employees who are listening, and this is the battleground where they're experiencing trust as the top issue or battleground, in their office or workplace. Two things about that. Number one, I think people need to see that a lack of trust is the biggest cost they have. So think about that. They don't trust their employees, and now they're paying for spyware. They're paying for all these things, right? If I don't trust, I say often due to the cost of lack of trust, like a lock. What's something I don't trust? You said put a lock on something.


BH:

The paradox of course, is a lock can in an untrustworthy environment increase trust but if I didn't have to, if I could trust you, there's two big costs one the the money I gotta buy the lock to time I gotta open it every time I go through the gate. What if it's a combination lock? Oh, my goodness, forever, right? But do you think of someone you trust even before you get to employees? Think of a workforce, think of a teenager if you're a parent that you trust Friday nights? No stress? Oh, I get it. What if it's a teenager I don't trust? It's just keeping me up at night. That's the same in this relationship between employer to employee. There's a lot of stress where there isn't trust either way, there's a lot of costs either way. So first, we want to create a trustworthy, high trust environment, and we want to hire high trust people and all that kind of stuff. As far as that example goes, I mean, the first thing people need to see is that a lack of trust is the biggest cost we have. This does not mean I believe we should trust everyone. so what we've learned is actually more there's more nuance because actually, while an employee might say I don't perform well when I've got spyware and all this which is generally true. An employee can also say there has been truth to people saying they're working. One job and working two jobs and actually, doing their laundry when they shouldn't be or whatever at home. So it is a real, genuine challenge. So for us to just say, Well, don't do this, are you kidding me? You're putting a chip in people, that's crazy. Or, oh, but are you kidding me, there are people that actually are abusing their essential freedom of not having accountability. So the two big things, there's a framework for building trust. But I will say two things that leaders, employers need to think about, especially from what we found is a mix, in an ad home or a virtual work environment, a mix between three things: clarity, clearly what I want, clearly what we need here, connection. So we stay human, like we're actually connecting, predictable connection with our people, every week, or every time, we're going to predictable connection. accountability. We have to have accountability, a fair type of accountability in any environment, but also in a in an in a virtual environment. So those little ideas come under the eight pillar framework, but those are three that have three little parts of the framework that have kind of risen to the top, because you have the leader saying, well, I need accountability. There's truth to that. you have employees saying, well, I need connection, I don't even know you anymore. Who are you? What is the human piece? So we have to think about both of those, together as we move into this new world, new economy in many ways.


KM:

When I interviewed you for the success from anywhere book, you introduced me to your eight pillars of trust. Could you take our listeners through those you referenced a couple in your list? Talk to us about what these eight pillars mean? How did you discover them? I'm guessing you pressure tested them to make sure they hold true as true pre pandemic as they are? I guess we can't call it post-pandemic. But whatever world we're in now, what are the eight pillars of trust? How did you arrive at them?


BH:

So the second half of my grad work is how trust is built and it's these eight pillars, the first half was proving a lack of trust of the biggest organization. So these eight pillars are how trust is built, by the way, I'll get to how we pressure tested them and so forth. But I believe I absolutely passionately research work across six continents with work across industries. I believe these are how trust is built falls under these eight, absolutely so. So they start with C's, so please don't think of them as some alliteration list from some motivation or something that they each represent a really important research funnel. But for clarity they start with seeing who they are. Number one is clarity. People trust the clear, and they miss trust or distrust the ambiguous or the overly complex whenever we over-complexify. But beyond what is needed, we lose clarity, which was just trust, a clarity, we trust, the clear, clear and just to give context quickly is this works for everybody. So a leader might not be trusted, because they're not clear about the vision of the manager might not be trusted, because they're not clear about expectations. A salesperson might not be,people are not buying. Even though they're clear about how cool they are and how long they've been in business, they're not clear about the benefits of that product to me or the teacher is not clear, they're not clear about the assignments. So the kids go home frustrated. So it kind of affects everything. So number one I'll go through faster now. Number one is clarity. Number two is compassion. We trust those that care beyond themselves. We have a hard time being accountable to someone or following someone if they don't have compassion or care, even if it's not about me, something beyond themselves, mission or so forth. Number three is character: we trust those that do what's right over what's easy. There's integrity involved there and a host of other things, but we trust character. Yet that's not everything because we also have number four competency. I might trust Karen to take my kids to the ballgame because of her character and not trust her to give me a root canal because of competent competency, as far as I know. Right. So competency. The next pillar is commitment. We trust those that are willing to stay committed when it gets tough, you, commit in the midst of adversity. if you think of people in life or history, that have left a legacy parent, maybe a teacher, Mandela, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Jesus or Joan of Arc, they might have been trusted because they're committed to something beyond themselves, maybe to death, so their followers might have trusted them partly because of commitment. The next pillar is connection, the ability, the willingness to connect and collaborate with others, we tend to trust that with if I see counter forces of trust, siloing in a company are unwilling to share for the betterment of all, we have a counterforce to this pillar of connection, the willingness to connect and collaborate, we tend to trust that willingness. The next pillar is contribution. What I mean here is contribute. Some of that contributes results. In fact, the number one word out of this research funnel would have been results. outcomes performance. You can have compassion, you can have character. But I bet if you don't contribute the results I expected or asked for, I'm not going to trust you. Finally, consistency, we trust sameness, the only way to build a reputation, the only way to build a brand is consistency of experience. sameness is why you might not trust someone, but if they're the same all the time, you'll trust them to do that, be late all the time, you're trusting them to be late all the time. Right? So that's the eight pillars. Of course, I can speak about tools and nuances about each of these, each of them for a full day. So that's a quick overview of the eight. But I think all empathy, everything comes back to these eight somewhere, and how they build trust in brands or global governments.Even great leaders with pure intentions, sometimes lack consistency, or fall short in one or more of these areas. how do you rebuild trust, when you trust is either fragile or has been broken or undermined in some kind of significant way. that could be trust in a brand or an organization as well. So first of all, let me say we all fall short. I mean, I, I mean, I teach on these, and I'm imperfect at them, I wish I would have, responded differently to one of my teenage daughters,, this week,, I we can know, something, and it's and it's difficult to,, so I'm imperfect with everything I teach. Yet, it's still true. I believe. As far as how we rebuild trust, I'll give one takeaway on this. In this time together, we do have a 10 step process, if you're a big company with an oil spill, let's say, or a board of directors, but whether you're a big company, or you're an individual, it actually comes down to one thing. It is not an apology. In fact, we never rebuild trust on the apology. That does not mean I don't believe we should apologize. an apology would kind of open the door of communication. But it is not the apology that we ever rebuild trust on. We've all had this happen where someone says I'm sorry, I'm late. In fact, they're late all the time. They didn't rebuild trust in the apology. The only way to rebuild trust, it turns out, is under the commitment pillar. That is by making and keeping a new commitment or promise. That's the only way trust is ever rebuilt. So when you're thinking as an organization, you have to make and keep a new promise or commitment before you will ever be re-trusted individually organizationally. Of course, there are more steps that we can think about, but that's the key.


KM:

You talked about communication and clarity as two of the eight pillars. Oftentimes I hear leaders share how challenging it is to communicate and have clarity amidst this time of a lot of uncertainty. The ways that we're needing to communicate and have clarity are changing. What are some practical steps people can take around communication and clarity?


DH:

When circumstances are shifting rapidly, new information is coming in, we may not always have the luxury of being in person to have the full nonverbal cues of the people we're communicating and trying to get this clarity with. There's a lot we could talk about here. Because there are so many things we can do as leaders. One I would over communicate the why, over communicate the why for change. We don't usually lose trust because of change. We lost trust, because we didn't over communicate the reason for the pivot. For the change that we saw, clarity is challenging. It's challenging for me, by the way, I do say this also, in fact, you at the core, no one ever has a communication issue. At the core, it is always one of these pillars. It's a clarity, so what they mean is communication is happening all the time. Clear communication clarity, like we said, is trusted, consistent. Communication is not high character, communication, stress and low character isn't consistent as trusted, inconsistent. Competent communication is trusted, incompetent isn't. So when we go down the pillars, first of all under communication, we actually solved the issue we meant. Is that clear? Was it competent? Was it compassionate towards them and so forth? So if we want to solve that, let's say communication issue, it's actually one of these that we want to use, but there are several things that are so over communicating. Why does it give clarity? Because they want to know why.


DH:

Change, why? Another couple ideas here is shortening the time frame. So as an example, I was to be on a call with General McChrystal, he took over the joint forces and one of the toughest times in the Afghan war. And, he said,, gone are the days of one year strategic plans, or,, we pull them back to 90 days or whatever, and there can still be a place for one year or five years, but, but basically pulling back timeframes. So he had mentioned, to those of us on the call,, pull back, when in the midst of change, which by the way is going to happen again, and very fast. I don't know if it'll be a pandemic, or blockchain or what it will be in everybody's world, but there's going to be massive change. he said, remember when it was basically this right, when it was so crazy, and we didn't know, we didn't know what's next. so we said, plant a flag for this week. What's the priority for this week? Okay, next week, what's the prayer for this week? What's the prayer for today? Interestingly, when he had mentioned when they were looking for Osama bin Laden, and he basically said, about this, he said, we were having these weekly meetings, we couldn't find the Intel to figure this out. He said something, basically, I pulled back the time frame. I said, I'm going to have a call every day, I think you said, Oh, 600 his time if he's in DC, or Europe, and he said, We're gonna meet for 30 minutes with 2200 intelligence professionals from North Africa, Europe, Asia,, and Dc on the call, anybody that has new Intel that day, bring it. So they took the Intel 30 minutes, then for 15 minutes, they made a plan for that day. Within a few months, they found Osama bin Laden. So it's, it's it, we have to as far as clarity, we have to bring back the time frame. So that we can be clear, because we cannot be clear in, on March 15, of 2020, we could not be clear about next year. We couldn't. So that's one idea. Another maybe little idea for people that just are managing people. ODC I call it not OCD. OTC. So if you want something, I learned this the hard way. When I took over my first organization, I was younger than almost all my staff, I had a lot of things against me. I wasn't getting what I wanted.And I started to think, Oh, I see. It's my fault. I'm the one not being clear. so I just started thinking through this ODC O 's outcome, not clear about all this way of doing it, especially if you have mature people, but what's the outcome you want? This matters in the new workplace, especially in the virtual workplace, because we're really building this on outcomes, not trying to not work, not on just doing things right. So people can be absolutely clear, but the outcome, the D is the deadline. What's the deadline? Maybe it's a final deadline, or maybe we don't know the final deadline, maybe it's just the deadline for looking at this part of it or what we know next. So, if we can give a clear deadline instead of I want to see that soon or next week, I want to see that 10 o'clock on Friday, because many managers don't give a deadline because they're worried it will create conflict, when you and I know not giving a deadline will ensure you get conflict. So outcome deadline, and the see is clarifiers leaves space for Are you clear? Am I clear? Are we clear about this together? There's space for some clarifying questions. That little idea actually can help a manager especially in this new environment.And expectations continue to shift. When I think about what happened during that initial lockdown. How many managers for the first time we're seeing their employees, homes or home offices, children, pets, and making a part of their practice checking in on the well being of that employee. I remember during that time you and I talked about, for the first time, the Edelman trust index that comes out each year reflected that during the pandemic, for the first time the most trusted entity became the office, your organization where you work over all other institutions. What do you make of that shift? How much of that shift and expectations do you think employees will continue to have with employers? Well, and that's so true, and specifically, what we're seeing is that I am trusted compared to all so not corporations, maybe not, but my corporation, not all CEOs, but my CEO. So this is why there's been a move back to nationalism and minus right so it's, there is a shift in people toward me. My CEO, my manager, my my, my and I think that's partly because people have gotten there's a ramp up of closeness almost in a way that this made not that of course, there's a separation because of virtual, but there's a, really, this is the person that,, maybe I used to get to talk to all kinds of people. Now I only get to talk to this person,each week or month or whatever it is. So there's, there's a move that way. I think it's,, going to be more critical than ever, that we as corporations lead the way. It is also true that institutional trust keeps tanking, other institutions, so media, government, all these things were sent to religion, even places of worship, food, you talked about being a farm I grew up on,, semi loads of dark red kidney beans. Now, the restaurant, or the person that's eating the food wants to know, it was grown outside the door of the restaurant, and was listening to music and picked with a white glove. The institution of farming is not as trusted as that gardener right next door. So we need to,we can think about that, but people are trusting their person, their manager. if they're not, they're leaving us, it's still as true. Gallup and our study, and others are finding still, number one reason people leave an organization is their direct leader.


KM:

So you referenced your study, I was fortunate to be a part of your annual conference around trust. I was struck that there were leaders and people from every kind of organization, big companies, health care, public service, and you released your study of this 2022 Trust outlook study. I keep this on my desk, and reference it daily. One of the topics that comes up consistently in conversations is culture. you built a whole section about trust and organizational culture. So first, tell us where we can find this report, because I think it's publicly available. But then let's talk about how we build organizational cultures of trust? Well, there you can go to trust outlook.com, or trust edge.com. you can get there the trust outlook, we pay for all of it ourselves, we do not take sponsors, so that it is a high trust, and is not skewed in any way by anybody. So it's, and we give it away. So trust outlook.com would be this specific study, trust edge.com is the overall organization, you can find it there. Lots to, lots of in, in this about organizations, well, let us jump into the next question. Well, we were talking a little bit about culture. I mean, who owns the culture of trust? Is it the employer or the employee? Turns out it was some combination?


DH:

Yeah, basically, it's 50/50. That was the finding, we wondered what people would expect, what they wanted, what they thought, and that was an interesting finding that basically globally, even people, it's owned by both, and people understand that. I use this page, probably most developed about building trust in virtual work environments, and it stands out to me. increased autonomy, is one of the responses and how much you have to have trust in order to offer people more autonomy. You have to, and that's why it's so important to create a way for trust to be built. So certainly hiring, measuring trust, and being able to hire high trust people or trustworthy people makes it a lot easier, right? it turns out, you can measure trust in certain ways. But of course, when trust is there, it just makes things, everything from stress to a host of other things just be way more efficient. When you are an organization or an individual, and you've identified a trust gap, let's say you've really gotten into the root cause you have the commitment to work on it. How do you get from that intention to impact? When you get into a plan, how does this get down to practical? It strikes me that you work with organizations and individuals and asking one question, right, because you can know the challenge, you can have a commitment to change. Yeah, but at some point, don't you have to have a plan? Of course, you have to have a plan, right? So here, we get hopeful when it's something we can do. Right? That gives me hope,,, I can do that. So a question that we ask over and over and over. If we're going to do this, we see this gap. But we asked the question, how, how are you gonna do that? Okay, then how are you going to do that? Okay, then how are you going to do it until they can do something starting today or tomorrow? It seems simple, but it's not. You have to ask how, when I was losing, I lost 52 pounds in five and a half months in 2011. It basically kept it off but what I kept hearing was,all you have to do is eat less and exercise more. that's not clear enough for me. finally I asked how until it came to something I could do today or tomorrow. Then I asked how I could do it again. By the way, we have to get to things we can do or are willing to do. So you can't say, if someone told me I can never have ice cream again, not happening. So I have to get the house I want. Is that the same with this work? Are these gaps? I see this guy, how can I close that gap? How, How, how, how, how, and tie into asking how until I will do something starting today, tomorrow, today or tomorrow? If that's if it's one person. Now when we do have plans on teams, and individuals but on teams, we are really clear that a how a final how always has a who, when and where. So who is me if it's me, right, but if I'm going to work out tomorrow, and I don't know when specifically chances are I won't do it if I don't know where choices don't win. So if I mean, you can either I mean they're gonna go to the gym, or I'm gonna run and take a run. If I have a choice at 530 in the morning, neither will happen. So and it's the same with people, by the way we've been lied to by co leadership is terrible. Generally, the data shows if you have more than one person on a final task at 50% less chance of it getting done. Collaborative Leadership is excellent, collaborate, collaborate, connect, connect, connect, but in teams instead of saying, Susie and Bill do this, give one a chance to be the leader and owner if you want it to get done. Ownership is trouble and should be stressed. Everybody listening will want to know what was your how that you got down to that helped you lose 52 pounds in five and a half. There are several okay, but one of them was not drinking a calorie and specifically I started with, I grew up in the poorest county in Minnesota. One thing we did not get to have one of the poorest counties one of the poorest to I one thing we didn't get to have was soda. In Minnesota, we call it pop because we can spell that. So, we didn't get to have a coke. The rich kids got to have a coke. We didn't get to have a can of pop. That was amazing, right? We saw that. But we didn't get a habit. So when I started flying more than 25 years ago, and the flight attendant said I can have my very own Can I had four cokes by La so I started drinking more and more. so my first Final how it was me I'm the final how that's a person, the place who was anytime I'm on a plane and it was a not going to drink a calorie so when they offer me a drink, which I would go back to childhood, Oh, I could never have this I'll have, I'll have at least i i was automatic and I still am automatic. I have hardly ever drunk a calorie now 10 years later, but the drink that was that was a big deal to me not to drink a calorie. So I ordered something else on the plane. In the morning. I thought juice was good for you. Of course doc said if you want to get sick drink orange juice, it's full of sugar,, eat an orange drink a glass of water. So my final question is, first of all, I'm not going to drink a calorie on a plane . I'm not gonna drink a calorie for 90 days. I'm not gonna drink a calorie for six months. I seldom drink calories today. Now I will drink a calorie once in a while. But I'm very aware. That works for me. That's not for everybody. By the way, This is not healthcare advice. This is not fitness advice. This isn't for most people, most of my friends would never want to do this. You have to get to something you will do. Right? you can do and for me, that was something I could do.


KM:

And back to what you said earlier, what's the biggest commitment you will make and keep to yourself? How are you going to do it?


DH:

Yep.


KM:

Well changing channels a bit? When we talk about the office? No office conversation would be complete without a little water cooler chat. Everyone says they miss this right spontaneous gathering. So I like to do a segment on the show of the virtual water cooler. Just take five. So five quick, easy, fun questions. You just say the top thing that comes to mind. Are you ready?


DH:

I don't know.


KM:

That's the nature of spontaneity. All right. When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up? A cowboy?


DH:

Oh, that's great.


KM:

Now I know we just talked about your 52 pound weight loss. What is your favorite guilty pleasure ice cream for snack and particularly, I'm an ice cream connoisseur. I mean, I can eat, I know that. What's good, what kinds aren't, what is made of the highest fat which you want, high fat milk or cream or not, and so forth. But I'll tell you the best. The best is homemade. With a very specific recipe, the recipe that I grew up with homemade ice cream. Put together, believe it or not, raw egg in the bucket. Crank. Yep.


DH:

It's got something like it. I've done that. It's the best.


KM:

You hear a lot, in organizations about trust you gave the meeting example, what is the most creative excuse you've ever heard for someone completely missing a meeting?


DH:

Most creative excuse? I don't know if I can think of a good one here.


KM:

Don't we have someone on the show that said she got contacted by one of her employees who was in labor, her water broke, and she had the presence of mind to contact her and say, I'm gonna miss the meeting. I thought, Wow, I mean, it's not just it's kind of creative. But I mean, how did she have the presence of mind?


DH:

I don't have a good one that pops to mind on that.


KM:

That's okay. What do you keep on your desk that inspires you? Well, I have right now, as an example.


DH:

I write a note of appreciation to just keep that front and center but being grateful for the people around me and grateful in, in, in every way. So that's on my desk I look at around here.

That's the key. I also have this back when the kids were cute, now they're teenagers. So no, they're still cute, but, and my wife is also. So if I turned around and showed you a couple pieces of art in the office, and I guess I kind of can, we can be just flexible, but there's some of the kids and some art that's inspiring if anybody's watching books that way also, of course, I love books. you can see yours right up there, one of them one of yours. you're a chapter in it, so everyone can check it out and learn more about building trust. Your note about writing a note of appreciation is a great transition to the last question in our water cooler segment. To whom are you most grateful for investing in your career?


DH:

Well there's two people coming to mind. I think a lot of people might say both of these, but one is, I told the story, I think you might have heard it on the platform this year. But my dad was a magnificent leader. He's not, he'll be 93. A couple months later, he still runs the big farm up in northern Minnesota mom and dad. They were so influential in my life when people talk to me about where this trust stuff came from many years ago and say, Korea, of course, it was the research, okay. It was working in this company. Okay, it was the book, okay. It was great work. Okay, it was this that, and I really think probably it started growing up on that farm under great leadership. So that's one thing. The other is my wife has supported me in this work in so many ways around the world. it's just a gift for sure to have a high trust relationship . I recommend marrying, right, if you're going to do that kind of thing. It tends to have a big impact on your life. so that's huge. I'll give one tip here tidbit. that is when I started speaking more, 25 years ago, I might be backstage, this is before we had any kids, and I was scared to death to go on, scared it, my knees are shaking, and I'm scared I might be sick to my stomach. she would look at me when she put her hands on my shoulders. she would just say, David, just love them, they can tell when you love them. Stop thinking about the research, stop thinking about this. Secondly, just love them. that's been a phrase, she'll text me she'll call when I meet, go up to speak to a whole country and meet the president of the country. there's machine guns all around, and she was with me on that trip over in East Africa. she just squeezes my hand and she knows I'm stressed. She's mad. Just love them. They can tell when you love them. when I get in that mind in any of my work. I speak in any of our consulting, and we have the phrase all around the office here and even the event of the trusted leader summit that you came to every morning. We talked to our team. Remember, just love them, they can tell when you love them. It's a big part of hopefully who we are. what we do and how we try to serve people, whether it's, for work toward an outcome of lower attrition or higher retention or increase sales or, or corruption issue deeper, stopping corruption issues or something it's all about for us. It's building trust to love them.


KM:

Well said, and thank you for sharing all of your wisdom and bringing trust into the workplace and into the workforce. It's the topic of our time. One last question. Before we close for everyone listening, what is one step that each person could take as soon as they finish listening to this podcast toward building more trust inside of their team or organization? Why? That's a big question to say one, what are you gonna get?


DH:

Number one, write down the eight pillar framework, put it by your desk, print off the site, whatever and think what is the real issue because it's not leadership. It's not communication. It's not engagement. It's one of those eight pillars Yep. Oh, it's a clarity issue. Oh, then you're solving the right issue. If you can get to those eight, that's one. Number two under those you can say: What one do I have the biggest opportunity to take and how is it until you could do something today or tomorrow? the third question, in one year it would beI would ask what can I do consistently? Am I going to do that because a lot of people say flavor of the month Oh, I will do that now but will I write. Do you know what I can do consistently because then do the thing you'll do consistently. We know it's a little things done consistently that make the biggest difference. So if I am going to pick something to do, or I have a choice among things, which thing could I or would I do consistently?


KM:

That's fantastic. Thank you. David Horsagar, CEO of Trust Edge Leadership Institute for sharing strategies to restore and retain trust from the boardroom to the living room today on success from anywhere because success is not a destination. Success is not a location. Success is available to anyone, anytime, anywhere. Thanks for joining us today.



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